Grab some popcorn

I'm like a struggling doctor, no patience

Seems pretty accurate to me...

In the first five comments only a bit of hate.
Hurray new record.

Nice one

See, it's as follows...
Windows users have to have patience, else they'd go insane.

Mac users don't necessarily have to have money. They just don't pay for health care and get a mac instead. They also have no patience and no skills.

Linux users, being the enlightened beings that they are, may have money, they may have patience. But windows and macos are for mere mortals and dirty peasants. So they choose the elitist OS, Linux.

@penguin man no one seems to know much about Macs. It's a full Unix system with a nice interface and no driver issues. You can do anything with it that you can do with Linux. Strange that developers of all people don't know that.

@ninjatini actually, plenty of developers I know (myself included) use Mac OS

Anecdotal experience: every tech job I've worked in, 99% of the developers used mac, usually only one or two used Linux. No windows... but I've never worked for a .net shop

Correct me if I'm wrong. Aren't mac and Linux almost the same since they r both Unix clones?

@SuryaK more like 2nd cousins where one is the smart rich bastard and the other is the smart punk robo-dodo. Unix to them is like the great great grandfather, and so although they share some of the same architecture and code, they are totally different entities.

@ninjatini can I use my own init or window manager? Can I boot into single-user mode? Can I update every single-piece of software, kernel included, on demand with a single command? Can I get multiple copy/paste buffers? Use a different file system than the default one?

If all answers are yes, then I will consider them equal. I don't actually know that much about macos, just pinpointed where I think might be some weak points 😀

@ninjatini dude, Mac is not Unix, it's a full remake that's why is considered *nix

Actually, I would say that Mac users don't have any money left... ;)

@Number0 loved that

@ninjatini 'You can do anything with it that you can do with linux'
Try to install another DE and let me know how that works out for you.

@SuryaK they're pretty similar in that Linux has the gnu toolset but their kernels are different. Linux is a microkernel and Mac is mach. What that means to most people is yeah they're basically identical.

@penguin it already has X built in. If you install brew you can pretty much do anything a Linux distro can do. Although I don't know why youd want to considering how much better Macs interface is than any Linux graphical environment. I mean take it for what it is, Linux is phenomenal on a server but doesn't do drivers or desktop environments well at all.

@jpichardo It sure is. It uses the Darwin kernel and is posix compliant and fits the Unix 03 standard or whatever. It comes with gnuutils and uses bash by default. That's a Unix.

@ninjatini if you say so

@magnusi lol It has a launcher daemon built in but I'm fairly certain it rocks the standard init scripts. Someone would have to correct me if I'm wrong on that. I've never really used it as a server. All the configuration pieces its probably a little more constrained on but can you clone pretty much any program that runs on Linux and compile it, yeah. I've never encountered something that I needed to do that Linux would do and os x wouldn't. It might do them slightly different but so would freebsd so that's fine.

@ninjatini OSX does not use X11 as its main desktop. It uses something called Aqua. AFAIK you can run X11 applications on OSX but X11 on OSX only does window management..

@penguin yeah that's correct. That's not a down side though as far as I can see it. (keep in mind, youre talking to an rhce with years as a Linux sysadmin, I like Linux, so I say all this in a fairly) Linux just doesn't have a good desktop environment. I mean if you want to take a day and mess around you can make it work, you can then spend forever working on driver issues and getting sound and mice and video drivers working properly but it's not a good experience either way. I mean mate is okay and budgie is pretty, Pantheon looks nice but they're way too buggy to use as a daily driver. Linux is phenomenal on the server but not great on a laptop. That said, free bsd has a few features Linux doesn't that are better like zfs copy on write filesystem, jails, etc. They all have their downsides but I've never felt limited by os x where it actually counts.

@magnusi There are various Linux OS-es that can't do many of those, macOS being on that same line. None of those are a must for developers afaik.

And there are window managers, and clipboard managers allow for multiple clipboard buffers.

@ninjatini @ninjatini There are a lot of good DEs for linux. Macos does have a nice environment - a bit too uncustomisable for me, but if it works for you great. Gnome is nice. KDE is good. I'm not a fan of mate or budgie, but there really are a lot of good ones. If you want one that just works I would try unity.
I havn't had driver problems in years. And I have a custom PC with more exotic parts. Driver problems are nothing like they used to be in the past on linux.

@ninjatini zfs and jails are pros for bsd for sure, but to me that's not something useful for a desktop environment. A webserver may be a different story..

@penguin yeah. Gnome is good if it's classic or whatever. Unity I don't like but it doesn't much matter. The driver issues are still around. I even have an XPS 13 that came with Ubuntu on it and the track pad didn't work well at all. That is less than a year old even.

@ninjatini Not completely, but there is brew to fill that gap. So I would agree with you 60-75%.

If your domain is linux, than you would be much faster there period. Because linux is virtually unrepeatable.

@ninjatini I wouldn't agree with that, because I use a very minimalistic desktop environment, which for a programmer outperforms both mac or insert_other_os_name_here by a 1000%.

Try switching between desktops on a mac, without going for the trackpad (or whatever apple calls it).

You can't even see your hidden files on it without a significant hack.

@busuu me 2! 😄😄

@ninjatini But if you use a mac you cannot do anything, except for maybe move the app launcher right/left/top.

Oh wait, there is no top.

Apple has also removed the "remaining battery time features" on all their macs, so you have to dig inside pm to get it to show. Savage.

@Number0 lol oh cmon, as highly paid as we all are as developers, 2 grand for a laptop isn't shit.

@linuxxx @Linux Please join in.

@Codebeard Significant hack? ls -alh ... Not sure what you mean about switching desktops without going for the mouse. You can command tab to cycle windows, command alt arrow for browser windows. It runs sublime just the same as any Linux. I don't see a massive difference other than looks. Mine even has one of those henge docks or whatever so I can have two monitors or undock and use it as a laptop. A lot of it is preference but I've never been more productive than when I'm on os x because it just doesn't break as often and doesn't require as much TLC. It also doesn't require me to install putty to connect to a Linux box so it is a nice environment. Amen about brew though. That's awesome. And I mean, Mac had GCC so it'll compile and run any programs that you would need elsewhere pretty much.

Edit: you can install a different desktop environment. I had to look that up because I've never seen anyone try. Weird.

🍿🍿🍿🍿🍿

@Codebeard yeah, for me xfce is fantastic for actually getting shit done.

@ninjatini Dell always messes up the trackpad, it's the hardware. On every single one of their machines, I've had the same problems with the trackpad. It's just goes crazy, even with the correct driver.

I had to take it apart and adjust some internal pieces to make it work.

I imagine it's a similar thing on XPS.

@Codebeard this will take two comments probably but here's my Mac...

@Codebeard here's the XPS (that's the shelf in a closet). I don't have time to diagnose track pad driver issues or figure out why my desktop broke due to an update. That's why Mac is more productive for me but to each his own.

@ninjatini My friend has an xps 15 and runs ubuntu without any issues...

@ninjatini I meant hidden files inside the GUI. What's it called the Finder or something.

Yes, it's all about preference like I said before.

Also, linux is the most stable os and doesn't require reboots. I don't know of a mac that lasts that long without sneaking one in.

I dont know why you mentioned putty, who needs that on linux or mac for that matter? Just ssh to the thing.

GCC works until you update Xcode and have to accept the licence in the middle of a compile (talking about shell). But at least it's there.

OK, that's news to me about the desktop environment. Thanks for searching for it dough.

@Codebeard Thanks for the mention! Fully agree with the picture 😅

@penguin i am envious. That track pad issue was maddening and Dell basically said 🤷 then searched around some Ubuntu forums where everyone said 🤷 so I just gave up on it. Upgrading, downgrading, other crap people have done with trackpads... After all that I just put it down and got the MacBook back out.

@ninjatini Can you have full root access on a mac?

@ninjatini OK, I get you. That you don't have time or will to configure things. Offcourse, everyone is just looking for something that works for them. 😊

Linux works for me. I like messing with things, specially within the OS, making votrexes appear is a ton of fun.

@Codebeard I meant like you do for windows. So it fits my use better than windows from that perspective. Fits my use better than Linux for the other issues I mentioned. And what is important is that I mean just for a workstation. For a server I always use Linux.

@Sauruz Agree with that but it's often policy. Had multiple internships and although everyone was required to use the company issues macs, at least half of them would rather use linux. No windows users yet.

@ninjatini Am I the only one who never had issues with drivers, has a fully functional DE (cinnamon in my case), has parents and family running Linux without any issues? Am I seriously the only one?!?

@linuxxx sure. Sudo su -. It's basically identical. It's like any other bsd environment.

If you mean do you have a root account, not by default but just do passwd root and you then have it. Although there are loads of linuxes that have a disabled root account.

Although I did recently read something about how they're going to lock down os x but I haven't really had to look into it.

@ninjatini Believe me, they have this issue sine the 90's. It drove me mad as well. Back then I used Suse, I barely got it working, then I figured out how to modify/hack the trackpad hardware.

@ninjatini Okay let me rephrase, could you, if you wanted to, rewrite OS X to suit your needs? Nope. Closed source.

@ninjatini By the way, we are all friendlies here, just a healthy discussion!

Not really important for programming, but I also like to have a PC that is actually powerful and apple doesn't ship anything with powerful hardware.

@linuxxx I think so. I even bought it preinstalled on that XPS for that reason because you know, I like Linux I just wish it to wasn't always a fight on the desktop. It's unfortunate and its the hardware manufacturers fault for not giving up the source to their drivers.

@ninjatini Wait what. Seriously you can't be root on osx only sudo?

@linuxxx yeah definitely not. I do see promise in the Linux world for a good desktop environment with some of the new ones but I think that will come once they go for Wayland or something. I basically have the same complaints as lunduke on a lot of this stuff. I wish it was better because I'd love to use yum and other rhel stuff that I'm used to on my desktop. Such is life though.

@penguin you have to run passwd root to enable the account. I thiiiiiiink that's how Ubuntu does it too but could be off.

@ninjatini oh, ok. Yes, ubuntu does that too now..

@penguin that's how I set up servers. I always disable root because it is a litte safer. You can always run sudo su - and then you drop into a root shell so it turns out all the same. I definitely never give root access to ssh as a minimum but that's sperate.

@ninjatini Are you a programmer or a sysadmin? or both?

@penguin @linuxxx @codebeard Here is a legitimate complaint I have with os x / apple though. If they sell me one more notebook with a God damn proprietary plug I am going to light a bag of dog crap on fire at the door of one infinite loop. Dicks.... Lol

@ninjatini Hey, can't blame anyone for good security practice! And as for the DE, for me cinnamon works, got a friend who loves gnome and a nerd who loves xmonad. They mostly work perfectly fine and it mostly depends on preference :)

@penguin both, I was a Linux sysadmin for like forever then did Dev ops for a long time and eventually wound up a programmer (in .net which is the strangest turn of events ever). I came from a Java background but was really good at SQL so wound up working on a CRM product that happens to be written in c# / VB. But it's all interesting and my checks keep cashing so I figure I'll keep at it. 😀

@linuxxx I'm slightly in love with pantheon. It is way too buggy to be used all the time just yet but gorgeous. Budgie is nice to look at too.

@ninjatini I've been an eos user for years! Could you tell me about the pantheon bugginess? Haven't had issues with it but always good to hear other peoples experiences!

@linuxxx I can't even remember it's been months and months. I just remember getting random errors and stuff. It is f*cking gorgeous, though. I am sure they've probably ironed out most of it since I last looked at it (and probably created new bugs because that's what we all do for a living). Whoever is doing design for them is on point and needs a raise.

@linuxxx You know, now that they have ubuntu budgie 17.04, maybe that will be all sorted. I will dump that on the laptop and report back. I'm be curious if it would work because it's a 1400 dollar paperweight at the moment.

After thinking about it, I bet mine had more issues because i went for the upgraded screen. I wanted higher resolution but got a touch screen as well in the process. I know i disabled it but I am willing to wager udev or whatever ubuntu uses gets confused.

I just have skill 🎓

@ninjatini it can get pretty annoying for Linux users, though all with the shitty native package manager, weird ass openssl, and core bsd utils. It also doesn't support containers, which pretty much all modern unixes support.

@ninjatini wat

Linux is a monolithic kernel and osx doesn't use gnu

I have money, but I have the skill to not burn it on fruit

@Phrodo-00 gnuutils. That's bash, cat, less, ls, etc. Pretty much the rest of the operating system. I think that's why the gnu crowd is so insistent on calling Linux gnu/Linux instead of just Linux but either way. It works, I love their tools.

Go fuck yourself

Did anyone notice the font below Windows is Comic Sans? :')

@Jappe you made me scroll 😂

@bioDan }:-)

Running a hackintosh, where's my fucking money